When a seasoned journalist and author sits down with a transformational coach, the conversation promises insights, wisdom, and practical life lessons. At the heart of this exchange is Subhash CV’s book, Doing to Being: The Inner Journey of a Transformational Coach, which explores coaching as a journey of inner transformation rather than simply a means of achieving external goals.
Suma Varughese, founder and facilitator of The Zen of Good Writing, former editor of Life Positive and Society, and author of Travelling Light, Travelling Lighter, and 50 Life Lessons, engages Subhash, a Master Certified Coach (ICF – International Coaching Federation), certified mentor coach, healer, and Bengaluru-based founder of Regal Unlimited, in a wide-ranging discussion. They delve into transformational coaching, detached attachment, spirituality, the Phyllis Krystal Method and Theta Healing, the coach’s own inner journey, and India’s ancient coaching wisdom, including Lord Krishna’s guidance to Arjuna.
Excerpts from the interview
Suma Varughese: Your perception that coaching is for transformation is the fulcrum of your book. How would you describe this concept, and how does it differ from what you call transactional coaching, which I suppose is the standard coaching methodology?
Subhash CV: Thank you for that question, Suma. I spent two decades in banking. Primarily in sales and P&L (profit and loss) roles. I had a reasonably successful career and left on a high, by divine grace. My turning point came when I went to INSEAD for an executive education program where I discovered coaching for the first time.
I was amazed that something like this existed, beyond the traditional coaching in sports.
Having been an active sportsperson, the concept resonated with me. I knew this was what I wanted to pursue for the rest of my life.
Making the transition was significant, particularly since I did not come from an entrepreneurial family. My father was in the armed forces, and most of my extended family were into teaching, banking, or defense jobs. I was among the first to venture into entrepreneurship and make coaching a full-time career.
Over time, I realized that much of coaching was transactional. Clients would approach coaches with specific goals, such as securing a promotion, becoming a CEO, or losing weight, and the coach would simply help them achieve those objectives. I now believe that unless coaching is transformational, it is not truly coaching.
Whether addressing career ambitions, relationships, or existential and spiritual questions, coaching must take a person beyond their initial goals. It should facilitate a deeper transformation, much like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. However, transformation is never easy. It demands an inner journey, but when a client genuinely undergoes that process, coaching fulfills its true purpose.
What do you mean by “transformation”? Are you talking about enlightenment, or where does this stop?
Subhash: In any other forum, I would have said no enlightenment. But why not? For me, that’s the highest standard, at least as far as I can speak about it. Or, as per Abraham Maslow’s terminology, it is a state of self-actualization—the highest human need.
Maslow subsequently clarified this concept. I don’t know whether he was lowering the bar or surely not raising it. He suggested that even if you are living a life of purpose, you have reached a self-actualization state.
And isn’t that what all enlightened masters do? They live not for themselves but for others. To me, that is enlightenment, nirvana, or whatever synonym we choose to use. However, we don’t necessarily communicate this in a purely coaching context, because people might not hire us. After all, we also need to pay our bills!
So, tell me, if you are in the process of transforming or even enlightening others, are you enlightened?
Subhash: Definitely not, but I can certainly say I am on that path. I say this with confidence and humility, not arrogance. As I briefly mentioned in my book, I did my early schooling in Kerala, where I was into student politics. Much later, at the age of 22, in 1988, I met my Guru. I moved from my earlier Communist leanings towards a spiritual path. I continue to follow him, or at least strive to.
I can confidently say that spiritual growth is my highest priority. As Swami Sarvapriyananda (head of the Vedanta Society in New York) says in one of his videos, when asked what one thing we should pursue above all else, the answer is self-realization. Everything else is secondary.
I am still a grihastha (family man), running a business with a small team whose livelihoods depend on me. But I am consciously focused on self-realization as my ultimate goal. I am on the path, though nowhere near the destination yet.
To be a good transformational coach, I don’t have to be enlightened. But I do have to be on the path. That path is not about rituals, faith, caste, creed, or religion. It is about practicing the basic elements of spirituality. This is critical because, by definition, coaching involves partnering with the client.
How far will your clients go?
Subhash: The beauty of coaching is that it is a conversation between two equals. Neither the coach nor the client should be placed on a pedestal. As those familiar with transactional analysis would understand, coaching requires an adult-to-adult conversation. It is about partnering and co-creating.
Coming to your question, coaching is also about maximizing a person’s personal and professional potential. For instance, a client may approach me with a transactional goal, such as becoming a CEO in five years, with the individual or company paying for the engagement. However, as a coach, my responsibility is to look beyond the person’s professional identity. Being a corporate executive is only one of the eight dimensions of life. The other seven are equally important in making a person a complete human being.
By the way, I’m a certified healer, and I am certified in two areas.
Tell us what they are.
Subhash: One method is the Phyllis Krystal Method, named after its founder, which focuses on burning karma and freeing us from the cycle of birth and rebirth. The other is Theta Healing, in which I am certified at both basic and advanced levels.
I don’t mix coaching with pure healing, but my coaching goes beyond the International Coaching Federation (ICF) framework. I encourage the coaches I have trained and mentored to do the same, as that is where their full potential lies.
Who is your guru? You haven’t mentioned him in your book at all.
Subhash: My guru is Sathya Sai Baba.
Is the concept of transformational coaching yours? Or has the world suddenly woken up to this idea?
Subhash: Coaching was always part of our culture. Once, while window shopping at an airport bookstore, I picked up Devdutt Pattanaik’s book, Leadership. I opened it to a page where he said, in essence, that Shri Krishna was one of the first coaches.
And coaching has existed across cultures. The ICF has simply put together a strong research-backed framework and popularized it. We have seven chapters in India. So, in this part of the world, we are just waking up or reconnecting with that.
I remember a participant in one of my sessions saying every now and then, “This is there in the Tirukkural.” I said, I’m sure it is. Much of what we discuss is in Tirukkural—attributed to the poet Tiruvalluvar. It is one of Tamil literature’s most celebrated ethical works, offering universal and timeless wisdom on everyday life. The ICF has presented it through a Western framework, making it easier to understand.
I would like to take some credit for popularizing transformational coaching. ICF doesn’t exclusively talk about transformation because people are scared of using that word. I once spoke to an HR consultant from Bangalore who reprimanded me for using that word too often in our conversation. “It’s scary how you coaches speak of transformation. Can clients really get transformed?” I told her that if transformation was not part of coaching, I would not have stayed in this profession for so long. I was happy as a banker.
Some of us are popularizing this approach. I’m also pushing this into my coaching community. I started mentoring coaches in 2014, and over 600 coaches globally have gone through our programs. We are continuing to spread this understanding.
As Mark Twain said, if you have to get good at something, you have to learn, practice, and teach.
Is yours one of the leading coaching organizations in India?
Subhash: We certainly are. However, our strength lies more in quality than sheer numbers. I left the corporate world to move away from chasing numbers. Here, I’m very clear—I’m chasing quality. We are also perhaps the most expensive coaching school because of the quality we deliver.
How does your Golden Triangle of IQ, EQ, and SQ (Spiritual Quotient) form the foundation of transformational coaching?
Subhash: Great question. One of the leaders in this space is Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, who’s written a very popular book, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There. So, I kind of give a spin to his idea—do we even know where we are headed? What is that “there”? Do we pause to reflect on our direction?
Coaching is about finding our North Star and aligning ourselves with our purpose. Marshall says coaching is for successful people, to help them become more successful. I see it as relevant to leaders—not only in corporate or political roles, but also to anyone with a leadership spark, young or old, male or female. By middle or senior leadership, a certain level of IQ is established. IQ gets you a job; EQ enables growth. The shift from “I” to “We” is recognized.
I recently conducted a two-day workshop for 25 Gen Z leaders working with an NGO. Empathy and emotional intelligence came up repeatedly. When I was in my early twenties, emotional intelligence was hardly part of my vocabulary. Today, young leaders understand its importance. Yet simply putting yourself in another person’s shoes is not enough. Much of the corporate world still pays lip service to empathy. Having spent two decades in that world, I admit I was not empathetic enough as a leader.
For me, the next step is SQ. When you operate from the love quotient, empathy becomes unavoidable. In my leadership exercise, “R” in LEADER stands for results-oriented—the starting point. But “L” stands for love quotient. A mother sees unlimited potential in her child; a guru’s love goes further, recognizing the soul’s journey from Jeevatma to Paramatma. I encourage clients who resonate with this approach to move from IQ to EQ to SQ. This does not mean neglecting worldly responsibilities. Be a good grihastha first; fulfill that role well before considering sanyasa. That, too, is service.
Please share a case history.
Subhash: I was coaching two senior leaders of an American Fortune 100 company, both shortlisted to succeed the CEO. If neither fit in, a third person would be parachuted from outside. HR was based out of the UK; the CEO, of course, was based out of India. Halfway through the engagement, HR said, “We are happy with the progress of both, and we have decided not to parachute an outsider.” The candidates did not know this. One candidate, a successful sales head, was known to be less assertive and not particularly receptive to feedback. During our first session, I asked about his fitness and spiritual practices. He woke up at 4 am every day but spent the first hour clearing emails, followed by a walk and coffee with his wife. He had no spiritual routine.
Our conversation prompted him to reflect. In the next session, he shared that he had bought a tulasi mala and decided not to reach for his iPad first thing in the morning. He gradually introduced meditation, extended his morning routine, and began avoiding screens during the first hour after waking and before bedtime.
Over six months and eight sessions, these small changes became consistent practices. He also read some of my coaching books. Eventually, he was elevated to the CEO’s position.
For me, that is transformational coaching. It is not necessarily about dramatic changes or going from zero to one overnight. It is about taking small steps, staying with them, and building on them. Once we take that first step, guidance often follows.
Transformational coaching seems to have a softer, more feminine approach, centered on deep listening, trust, and giving clients space. Are women naturally more drawn to this style of coaching?
Subhash: So the first point is not so. One of the things we remind each other is, are you challenging the client? It is a very deep one-to-one conversation. We do push the client. One of the things I say in my first session is, I come from a sales background.
We are allowed or expected to challenge the client and push them because transformation is outside their comfort zone. But, you know, it is organic. The transformation doesn’t happen in one step. We give that little long rope because that’s where the engagements are: 6 months, 9 months, and 12 months.
Yeah. So it’s not soft for sure.
With regard to the second point, during my training to become a coach, one of my mentors said, “Women make better coaches, right?” I challenged him. For me, as Sadhguru says, it’s a state of consciousness. So it’s more of Ardhanarishwara (Lord Shiva as half man, half woman). It helps to be a little bit of an alpha male, but balance it with that feminine energy, the Shakti part of it. Only then can you coach. I know there are mentees in my coaching community who have not made the transition. They are very successful as coaches, but I don’t think they’re experiencing transformation themselves. They’re not making that shift within themselves. While they may be getting very successful engagements, I don’t think they may be creating that ripple effect. So, yes, feminine energy or consciousness is absolutely necessary.
And as a corollary, I also wanted to note that you’re probably doing your bit to evict patriarchal energy from the planet.
Subhash: Yeah, very true. Today, every problem, from climate change at the planet level to the challenges at home, can be attributed to the alpha male energy at its worst. I don’t blame one leader in a certain country. I think it’s a projection of the Collective Consciousness.
Yad bhavam tad bhavati (As you think, so you become). So we all are responsible, right? I’m making a squirrel-like contribution to elevate consciousness. In the process, yeah, addressing some of these patriarchy-related problems, for sure.
The chapter in your book on detached attachment resonated with me, particularly the idea of not becoming more invested in an outcome than the client. How does a coach practice detached attachment while still supporting clients?
Subhash: I see accountability as part of coaching. I am committed to supporting clients and reminding them of their goals, but I remain detached from the outcome. I often ask mothers to practice this approach in parenting: love the child without becoming attached to the outcome. It allows the child to blossom. This concept of “detached attachment” is one of my signature ideas. Though people often struggle with it, I believe it is deeply spiritual.
Could you tell us more about yourself beyond coaching—your interests, lifestyle, and seva?
Subhash: I have been married since 1994, and my wife and I live with our married son, a practicing lawyer, and our rescued Indie dog, Jack.
I resumed learning Carnatic music in Riyadh in 2006, after having studied it as a child. I see music as sadhana and recommend that everyone have an active hobby they can enjoy without worrying about being perfect. I also practice yoga, which I approach as a spiritual discipline rather than just asanas and pranayama. It helps me sustain the demands of entrepreneurship.
I read selectively and have wanted to write for nearly 15 years. This is my third book; the first two remain unfinished. Encouraged by my son and conscious that coaching needed more books by Indian authors, I felt I owed this contribution to the profession.
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